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The team and audience of RecruitingDaily discuss sourcing tools, news, need-to-knows, need-to-use, and a whole lot more. Class is in session.
Sourcing School by RecruitingDaily
The New Era of Recruitment: AI and DEI Perspectives with Britt Sanders and Adam Couch at Oleeo and Marcus Mapes of Claro
Are you ready to embark on a fascinating journey into the heart of recruitment technology? Get ready to have your mind expanded as we talk shop with our pack of talented guests! Britt Sanders and Adam Couch from Oleeo and Marcus Mapes from Claro Analytics tackle hard-hitting topics like the impact of AI on the industry, how ChatGPT is shaking up labor market reports, and how data is becoming more accessible, akin to the revolution Google brought about.
Hear about the challenge of classifying job titles and industries, how the manufacturing industry serves as a gauge of the economy, and how Claro Analytics has become an invaluable tool for Wilson HDG for recruiting.
Special mini series recorded with Oleeo at HR Tech 2023 with hosts Ryan Leary, Brian Fink, and Shally Steckerl.
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Hey everyone, welcome to Recruiting Daily. Sourcing School podcast. We are live at HRTech in Vegas. We are powered by Olio, a data-driven automated recruitment platform. I am joined by two of the Olio'ers. Is that the proper Olio'ers? Is good.
Speaker 2:Olio'ers. Okay, it's a new one, but I'm digging it, it's good.
Speaker 1:I'm joined by Britt and Adam. We're going to have a great conversation with Mark Mates, who's joining us from Clero Analytics. We're going to probably crunch some numbers, I guess. Maybe we're probably going to talk about that AI thing. If you are just joining us, Mark Mates, what's going on? Hi everyone, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3:Okay, all right, ai numbers.
Speaker 4:I was just saying Ryan Leary is supposed to be over here, but he just got a lot better looking yeah.
Speaker 3:Ryan Leary.
Speaker 1:Got hair.
Speaker 4:I mean you know.
Speaker 1:Can I have your secret? Because?
Speaker 2:I can do some hair too. I'm trying to grow my mustache out, but it's a little weak.
Speaker 1:My daughter asked me if I was going to do that for Halloween and I said, well, I thought we were. So for Halloween we're going as breakfast as eggs, bacon and a waffle. And I was like, why do I need a mustache for bacon? And my daughter was like, well, you know, because it would be cool and I'm like go talk to your mother about this. Go have a Allie. If you're listening, I'm not growing the mustache, all right, so we've already played a little bit of buzzword bingo here. Mark, you've been on the floor. You've been in recruiting, recruiting technology, for umpteen years. What are you seeing? What's the vibe, what's the feel here today on the floor? What's the big topic?
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, of course, in chat, of course, that kind of come up in the last two years, right. So I think people kind of feel like it's real now, like there's really something there, right, the story was just a buzzword. Nobody really knew what was going on. I think some people put the stake in the ground a couple of years ago and since then it's changed a lot and it's just moved so fast, right?
Speaker 1:All right. So about putting the stake in the ground in fast movement, do you think that they have been able to change and keep up with the market? Or are you saying they put the stake in the ground and the market came to them? What's going on?
Speaker 3:In a personal opinion, they put it too early, right, it wasn't there yet. Like even the chat stuff we're doing, it has a hard time scaling right. We have to have a lot of workarounds and we're making it work, because chat just doesn't necessarily scale to the point where we're analyzing so much data like that, right, with the way that we built it. So I think it's technology's catching up. Like you know, when I started, I laughed Like people. A couple of people have come over and talked to me about what they're doing and it's assessment-based job matching a company that I started in 2009,. Right, and they still haven't figured it out, right? How many years later, so? But yet they still have really cool technology and abilities to be able to do that.
Speaker 1:Wait, wait, wait, wait. How can it be really cool technology if it hasn't evolved since 2009? No it because I'm biased. I don't need to be a dick, I'm just asking.
Speaker 3:I'm like I think it's cool. I think the ability to use technology to provide a better, almost more, human experience is cool right.
Speaker 1:Okay, I agree with that. I'm sorry, yeah.
Speaker 3:Matching, matching does that right. We're not really matching. There's some of the stuff that we're talking to other vendors about hint hint about some stuff that we're working on to be able to match profiles. Use AI to analyze not just matching but what's needed, right?
Speaker 1:So, when we're talking about matching and about what's needed, do you think that drives a better candidate experience or? A better recruiter experience.
Speaker 3:Oh, it should be both really. But I think candidate experience definitely just the ability to be matched to appropriate jobs, and this isn't what we're doing at all. I'm kind of getting off topic.
Speaker 4:No, it's all good. It's all good. There is no topic.
Speaker 2:There is no topic to use, so question for you, mark Did chat GPT make it okay for people to start using AI? Is chat GPT the thing that made everybody say, okay, we've all been doing our own AI, we've been doing this prescriptive learning? Olio certainly tried to do it. I would say, too early. We started three, four years ago and everybody was like, ah, we don't want to touch AI. But as soon as chat GPT came out, I was like we got to have it.
Speaker 2:Everybody's got to have it. It's kind of like the stamp of approval. You think that would?
Speaker 3:happen For us. It also made it possible for us to launch our reports that we're launching here at HR Tech, the labor market reports, where we have over 500 prompts that are analyzing our data and delivering results that a person would have to sit back and look at our reports and say what does this mean? What does this all mean? What do I do this information? Okay, so I have supply and demand, I have salary data, but what does that mean? With chat, gpt, we can actually tell them based on obviously a lot of information. Right, but it does make it a lot easier to use it.
Speaker 2:So chat GPT to me it's like the Google of data, right. So when we went live with our own AI, it was our data. It was basically kind of our customer data that we had anonymized, essentially, so it was a small data set. Now with chat GPT, it's across the entire web and so I think that's really changed the game. And for me, chat GPT was like okay, well, it's still old data, it's still two years old. Now, what are they? 4.0 or 5.0 now?
Speaker 1:I can't keep up. 4.0 is in 2022, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's insane.
Speaker 3:It's moving quick yeah, I mean there will be any year from now. It will be what version, who knows? It's going to keep moving fast it will be in the future.
Speaker 1:In the year 2000.
Speaker 4:Thanks, Adam, that's very insightful you know, it's good. Yeah, I just wish it was around when I was in college.
Speaker 1:My kid didn't write papers anymore. Well, so I think about kids writing papers. I think about, if it's accurate information, how they're going to read and process that prompt in real time, right? Like you know, I use chat GPT to tell my daughter's stories before we go to bed, because I'm just like tell me a story about a mystical penguin and their adventures in Antarctica, and it tells me a story that I can read to her right. What are people reading? What are people consuming? What kind of analogies can be made when you're using an entire data set? That, like you know, what does Steve Jobs have in common with Malcolm X? I don't know. But chat GPT, yeah, might be able to come up with something to that, right. But they're both revolutionaries, right? You know, both think different. Yep, there's got to be something else there. It's interesting.
Speaker 3:Well, it's also with the labor market reports. We're also changing the way you're searching, right? Sure, have you seen the back end of Claro? It's all Boolean token based, where you have to move it around, do all that stuff. The information that's analyzed and delivered through our reports would take a trained Claro user three days to crunch all those numbers and produce all that data. That chat GPT does in less than five minutes. And the search is only two inputs it's position or job and location. That's it You're not doing. I mean, some of the searches that we can build on our Boolean builder are 100 tokens. It can do it like that.
Speaker 1:All right. So for those of you who don't know what Claro does, can you give us a use case real quick, Because I think we're swimming into those waters and we need to dive right in?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's talent, intelligence, workforce analytics. So we take supply and demand data, crunch all those numbers and then we kind of expose the data that's in there. It can be location stuff around supply and demand, average salary for a position in a certain location, what skills are needed for that or what the average skills look like for that position, diversity, data attrition, risk modeling. We have what we call job seeking sonar, so we allow companies to track people.
Speaker 1:The sonar tool, I think, is free right. It is it's?
Speaker 3:a Chrome extension. Thank you, brian, for that. It's a Chrome extension that you can download and use free. Of course, there's a lot more features on the actual platform that do that, but it's a great way to track either your own employees and we like to think people use it for good, right for upscaling or promotions or if someone's thinking about leaving, they want to be able to see that, and then they want to be able to know that so they can approach that person or whatever. You can also do it against your competitors or whatever, or a talent pool as a whole, and track their behavior and when they hit a certain threshold they say active, like they're actively looking for a job.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I know we're definitely looking forward to moving our relationship forward with you guys. I guess in the three areas that make sense from an ATS provider, right, the talent refresh the profile, refresh the talent. Intelligent data when you're posting a job as a recruiter to see those insights. And then the sourcing piece as well. So for us on the ATS side, it ticks all those boxes that our customers are asking for, so we're excited.
Speaker 3:Yeah, imagine opening a rec and having what we call an insights widget that tells you the diversity that's needed for that pool the average salary, the skills, where's the best place to hire that person All at the point where you open a rec right there in your face so you can make really good decisions. Or you can go back into the hiring manager say you're crazy, we can't get that person with those skills, for you know, we have to up it to 20,000 or whatever right, so it's-.
Speaker 1:That's what Brian always says yeah, so wait a minute, you're touching. You touched on DEI when you talked about diversity. Right, yep, in 2024, I mean 2023 diversity has been a very hot topic. It's been important to organizations to diversify. What do you see for diversity in 2024, especially with now a fifth generation entering the workplace?
Speaker 4:Ashtrat GPT exactly.
Speaker 3:Man, I can't even get my head around that. Repeat that again because that was really thoughtful, and I know, occasionally Brian, occasionally Brian, so-.
Speaker 1:You went deep, so I'm just wondering, like, from a DEI perspective, what does 2024 hold for us? Because we are now going to have a fifth generation entering the workplace right.
Speaker 3:I mean, it becomes more important, right? Because the workforce cares about it, right? So hence the company needs to care about it if they want to hire those people that care about it. So I think that beyond that, I can't even I'd have to think about it and come back to you.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's fine, we can come back, we can do another episode, we can get Ryan Ryan Leary, wherever you may be, we can get Ryan Leary to do another episode.
Speaker 3:I'm trying to stick it personally, Like as soon as I sat down, he's like no, I gotta go, there's too many baldness at this table, I gotta go.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow, all right, the last podcast we were on, ryan was like is there anywhere that you go, that you don't know a good restaurant to go to? I was like I like to eat, wow, yeah, yeah. So we were talking I like to eat, I like to eat the good food. As we're talking about that next generation in 2024, what do you see for Claro that you can kind of pull back the curtain and tell us this is what we're doing in 2024, and this is what's gonna make the difference in the lives of recruiters.
Speaker 3:I think what we've been working on this report for six months I think it's just gonna continue to get better and I'm not overselling it, like changing the search experience by taking something that takes days down to five minutes is amazing and the insights that are gained from that. We're also, like everyone else, trying to figure out industry and job titles, because it's really muddy waters.
Speaker 1:They're not ubiquitous, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right, so I could be a Java developer that works for McDonald's, but my industry is IT right, but I'm gonna put IT. I'm not gonna put the food in beverage industry right, Sure, but people that are looking for IT specialists and from the food in beverage want to find people that have industry experience. But I don't put that in my mind.
Speaker 1:I don't understand why it's important to a Java developer. It's like would you like fries with that Java? Java is just a Is he a Java developer?
Speaker 2:Is he making Java? I can't understand what Maybe Java developer McDonald's? Mcdonald's is a bad idea.
Speaker 3:Maybe Python developer for McDonald's Sure.
Speaker 1:They're developing.
Speaker 3:They're. Next burger is a Python burger. I don't know.
Speaker 1:I don't think that we live too far from that.
Speaker 3:Which killing it by the way, commercial killing it on Peacock is a fantastic show that everyone must watch.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right, so we've got some, it's about Pythons, it's about snakes.
Speaker 3:I was gonna say I was like Relationship there we're doing the whole.
Speaker 1:We're doing the whole consocial thing. Yeah, all right. So we talked about what's going on in 2024, how the tool can make recruiters better and faster. What do you see from a labor market perspective? Do you see an uptick in the number of recruiters that are going to be rehired, or do you see that it's going to say stagnant in 20. Because there's a lot of activity here on the floor, there are a lot of companies that are here, there's a lot of representation. What do you see from that angle?
Speaker 3:Well, the cool thing about the company I work for we also are owned by Wilson HDG, which is a big RPO company.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 3:So they're seeing a very big uptick in people looking for their services in manufacturing. So they found over time, when manufacturing starts hiring the industry, everything starts turning around right and they're very bullish on the point where a lot of recruiters are going to get hired, but they're an RPO, so they also like it, because companies hire them instead of hiring, you know, full-time recruiters until things turn around.
Speaker 1:Well, sure, but that makes sense from that perspective, right, Like you're turning things on when you need them. It's time to hire that you're really going after and you're thinking about the best deliverable paired with the best technology that Claro has in that class to be able to answer those questions and for that RPO to not just be an RPO but to be a true talent partner.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and every one of those recruiters 2,000 recruiters for Wilson uses Claro and they live by it. They have to have it. So kind of cool.
Speaker 4:Not a bad beta customer.
Speaker 2:So you said something there just a minute ago. That they look at the manufacturing hiring is almost like the tip of the spear on where the industry hiring will come after that. Yep, what industry.
Speaker 3:All industries right. Yeah, that's what they found over time for the waves that we've spent around a long time. So manufacturing is a good indicator of the economy overall going positive Because you think about it, you know when stuff gets sold right, they have to manufacture it obviously Mr Obvious here, but then they have to hire to do that. So when people start buying, then they are apparently. So that's the way it's going.
Speaker 2:Very cool.
Speaker 1:All right well, so we've had a big, burly conversation that has been about everything from Ryan Leary's baldness to the future of a generative AI and what we can build and what we can look for into 2024. Mark, I want to thank you. Thanks for making time for us today.
Speaker 4:Oh, look at that Ryan Leary on your show. Yeah, right in time, what's up?
Speaker 1:I'm Brian Fink. I'm joined by Britt and Adam from Olio. It's been a pleasure hosting Mark. Thank you so much. Enjoy the rest of your HR tech. Thanks, mark, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thanks.
